This interview was originally published in The Simplifier #67. 

Interview: Chuck Coovert, Master of Organization

By Shawn Tuttle

I met Chuck Coovert through Toastmasters; he was in his 5th year when I began three years ago. I was impressed by his preparedness and his willingness to help–he always had an extra joke ready in case we were short for the day and he constantly received kudos from members he had mentored. Since then I’ve been inspired by his ability to be substantially involved in numerous organizations while always maintaining an even-keel, good-natured attitude. After reading his reflections on several of my newsletters, a site visit to his office and wood shop clinched my impression of Chuck: he is a Master of Organization. His workspaces are well thought out; everything is in its place. His systems and actions are intentional and thoroughly self-customized. He applies the skills and experiences he’s gained from some 40 years in various electronic and high-tech firms to the multitude of organizations he works with now. He serves on the Boards of Directors of CORR (Community Recovery Resources), the Child Abuse Prevention Council, and the Coalition for a Drug-free Nevada County. He’s also a Court Appointed Special Advocate for children (CASA), a long-time member of Toastmasters, a wine connoisseur, an amazing wood worker, electronic wizard, a knowledgeable rose caretaker, and a much loved grand-dad. 

Being organized means different things to different people. What does is mean to you? 

Coovert: I organize because it’s the only way I can stuff all the things I want to do into the time I’ve got. I found that if I’m not highly organized I don’t get anything done. I have so many different interests, so many things I want to do. I also like to walk into a neat office and see a clean desk, and I like being able to find things, because I’ve got so many things going on, I like to be able to easily put my hands on things. That’s why I organize by folders, and by slots, and by bins, and all that kind of stuff. It’s a means to an end for me.

ST: You listed a lot of benefits and then talked about what that specifically means as far as using bins and folders, I think a lot of people have the desire to be organized for all the reasons you just listed, but what does that mean? Is it how you structure your time? Is it just that you can find things? Is it the way you think about your work for prioritizing…

Coovert: Yes, yes, to all of those. I have a set of folders on my desk. I also keep a list of activities and priorities, things I should be doing, and it sits right there, close by. Then I run down the list, and say I want to do this marketing plan or this review or whatever, I go right to the folder and it’s got a name on it, and I pull it up. Every time I get something for that project, or find something on the internet, I print it out and drop it in the folder. When I’m ready to work on something, it’s all right there in one place, I don’t have to go digging for it. In piles of paper, things get lost. If I set things on top of something, it gets lost. 

ST: I like your story about when you were managing employees and how you’d refuse to approve anyone’s request for a new filing cabinet, instead telling them to make room in their current cabinets.

Coovert: If you look at those filing cabinets, what’s really going on is that they are just too lazy to clean them out. And in every case that I’ve said “no”, they all of a sudden find all this space and find all kinds of stuff they don’t need to keep. I never bought a filing cabinet the whole time, except when I started a whole new department. But other than that, I don’t think it’s necessary. Most people keep too much stuff and the reason they don’t get rid of it is because they are lazy.

ST: Or, maybe overwhelmed. I’ve been thinking about this lately in terms of being hijacked by this drill sergeant head who just won’t let you stop to take care of those “important but not urgent” tasks (referring to Stephen Covey’s Urgent-Important quadrants diagram).

Coovert: Well, you point out to people that cleaning out the file cabinet is an important task, so i wasn’t really trying to be mean and nasty, I was trying to tell them that there are other parts of their job that are important, like getting rid of the debris. 

ST: One of the things I’ve admired about you is that you always seem calm. You have a nice, fluid, sustainable pace. I don’t see you charge up and then have to back down and then charge up and back down. Would you say that you are calm because you have stuff under control? Or is it the other way around–You have stuff under control because you’ve got a calm pace going?

Coovert: Hmm, interesting question. I don’t think it’s either, or it’s both. I think it’s a combination. I’m not necessarily calm, I just look like it. Kind of like the duck who’s placidly going along on top and the feet are going like crazy. I wake up in the middle of the night thinking about stuff and jot stuff down. So, my calmness is a pretty good act.

But I do think that being organized allows me to have enough time to look at things I need to do without getting all frazzled at the last minute. I really intensely dislike it when people drop something on you that you need to do in the next 15 minutes. What’s the saying? Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine. I believe in getting things done. I’ll start working on something several days before it has to be done. Now, I may stop — I find when I do that I can think about it and maybe do a better job of it. Then I’ll come back to it. 

ST: What other methods do you use to get more stuff done?

Coovert: This is a philosophy I use a lot: There is nothing you cannot achieve, if you don’t care who gets the credit. And I’m a firm believer in that. I try never to take the credit for accomplishments. I’ll take my share of the blame. But I find that’s very effective in motivating people. Even volunteers. If someone else had anything to do with the process, the project, success or whatever it is, I always try to give them as much credit as I can get them to take. Some of them won’t take much–most of my life is motivating people, once I come to think about it.

I used to have another philosophy about managing people: If you can get them all marching in the same direction, on the same path, there is no other path, there is no other way. They don’t even see it. They’re just going down the path. And you get all the people marching in the same direction, you could control the world, if that’s what you wanted to do. And if you think about it, that’s what the dictators tried to do. 

If you have a real vision and you properly enunciate your vision, you’ll get people to go your way.

ST: It seems like when it’s pure enough, in the sense that it’s coming from the heart, which is going to be a larger vision for the world rather than solely serving your ends, especially in a volunteer capacity, it’s going to be a lot easier to motivate people in that direction.

Coovert: And I’m going to say that you have to be organized to be able to do that. You have to be able to pull together your thoughts, and your directions, and be able to think about where you’re going, and make sure you know where the holes in the road are, and try to drive around them, or at least tell them to watch out for the holes coming up ahead. I think you have to be very organized to do that properly. 

ST: You are a natural leader.

CC: I never looked at myself as a natural leader. Usually I’m the guy who kind of knows where he wants to go.

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Shawn Tuttle is founder of Project Simplify.